The Capital of Israel
Saturday January 17, 2009
Stuart wrote, "Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel, not Jerusalem. My son wanted a webpage that listed national capitals and quite a number make this same mistake. No country's embassy is in Jerusalem. Israel illegally declared its capital as Jerusalem and this is not implicitly recognized as its capital by any other country in the world." I responded that despite what other countries in the world or the United Nations do or even what is legal, the executive, judicial, and legislative headquarters of Israel are all in Jerusalem so Jerusalem is indeed the de facto capital of the state of Israel. It's my belief that other entities can not impose a capital city on an individual country. What do you think?
Comments
I lived in Jordan while I started up an oil refinery unit in Amman about 50 years ago. At that time part of Jerusalen was in Israel and part (the biblical and touristy part) was in Jordan. I couldn’t go into the Israeli part because Jordan would not then readmit me with Israeli stamps in my passport. I was confused then. I am still confused.
You’re asking the wrong question. The question is not can Israel, the question is should Israel.
I don’t believe that Israel would declare Jerusalem as its capital if it did not occupy East Jerusalem and the surrounding territory of the West Bank as a buffer. Since occupied territory cannot be annexed by an occupying power, according to the Geneva Convention, East Jerusalem does not belong to Israel.
Declaring Jerusalem the capital does nothing to promote peace in the region. Israel’s creation of “facts on the ground” another example of Israel’s arbitrary and a one-sided view of the region.
When I worked in Saudi Arabia in the late 70’s a system was in place for visiting Israel without our passports being stamped so we could return to our Saudi homes. Just a part of life.
Jerusalem is divided in so many ways; isn’t there some way to make an ‘international city’?
There are a few countries who do recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israeli, as declared in 1948. Coast Rica still officially does but moved its embassy to a suburb while El Salvador use to until the conservative Palestinian Catholic Tony Saca ordered it moved. The U.S. Senate passed and Bill Clinton signed (Bush later supported) an act to move the embassy to Jerusalem but no one in the State Department actually wants to do it.
De Facto the capital is Jerusalem because that’s where the government meets. What other countries say does matter somewhat because of international relations. In the end one must ask the question what exactly a capital is. Only then can one answer the question in the context of Israel whether they like the answer or not.
I was shocked by Matt’s rude reply to my enquiry. Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel and I fail to understand why an American should get so personal about it.
My nationality doesn’t matter. I would be just as upset if someone said that Sydney is the capital of Australia because embassies are located there and not in Canberra.
lighten up, Stuart
Matt’s “rude comment”? You must be kidding. It was a totally gracious answer and wholly objective. And he did not insist on his own judgment–he even asked others to chime in and offer their opinions.
It never ceases to amaze me how much emotion the city of Jerusalem generates. People have shed tears and blood in bucket loads and still the conflict goes on. And I dare say there is more to some. I understand Stuart’s reaction, although I thought Matt was strong rather than rude.
All countries have the right to name their own capital city. Matt is absolutely correct. It is no one elses business which city is named by a country. I for one would be most insulted if someone overseas tried to tell me that Sydney was the capital of Australia rather than Canberra.
But the embassies are in Canberra aren’t they ? So, Australia is not an analagous situation.
Tel Aviv is he temporary Capital of “Occupied Palestine”.
Jerusalem will return in time to be the Capital of Palestine after the jews agree to live in peace with the Arabs.
Whatever anyone else says, Jerusalem is Israel’s capital. It is the city from which they are governed. It does not matter if some countries argue that it should not be the capital. It is.
As for the argument against annexing occupied lands. Most countries of the world would not have any claim to the lands or their capitals if that rule had prevailed. How did Saudi Arabia get so big except by conquest. Jordan annexed the West Bank after the first war with Israel.
There is a psycholinguistic aspect to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that makes it more intractable than similar conflicts.
Obviously, Israel and Palestine are different names for what is essentially the same general geographic area. What is not obvious is that this area represented the male member on a Phoenician anthropomorphic map of west Asia.
Anthropomorphic Maps
Anthropomorphic maps were generated by configuring the body of a god or goddess over the area to be mapped. The name of each part of that body became the name of the area under that part. This produced a scale 1:1
map-without-paper on which each place name automatically indicated its approximate location and direction with respect to every other place on the same map whose name was produced in this way.
Hermes
The body-part map of Hermes stretches from the Ukraine to Yemen. kHermes [kHoR = hole + MoSnaim = waist] lived at Mt kHermon before he moved Mt Olympus (Greek omphalos = navel). Later his name was reversed to become Latin Mercury. Compare Amerigo Vespucci and America.
His head [Ro@SH] was at Roxolania/Rus, south of Belarus. Its name changed to the Ukraine (Gk kranion = cranium, not Slavic u kraina = to/at the border). His throat [GaRGeret] is Georgia. His left shoulder [KaSaF] is the Caspian sea. His right shoulder [@aTZiL] was Euxinus, now the Black Sea. His right arm/hand is being washed [NaTiLat] at Anatolia. His upper arm (Sanskrit irma) at Armenia, biceps (Greek pontiki = muscle) at Pontus, elbow [KiFooF yaD] at Cappadocia, wrist [m'FaReK] at Phrygia, and thumb [BoHeN] at Bithynia were in Anatolia. His heart (Greek cardia) became Kurdistan. His narrow [TZaR] waist is Syria and his navel (Sanskrit nabhila) reverses to LeBaNon.
His buttocks [YeReKH] is Iraq. His left thigh [shin-vav-kuf] sounded like TvK and reversed to Kuwait. His left knee [BeReKH] is partially reversed in Bahrain. His right [Y'MiN] foot is at Yemen.
South of his navel at Lebanon was his male member (Greek phallus) named Philistia and later called Palestina by the Romans.
The Canaanites used this body-part technique on a smaller scale. They envisioned a female body on which Ashdod was her breast (SHaD], Ashkelon was her abdomen heavy [SHaKeL] with child, and Gaza was a reversal of ZooG = couple (the area involved in copulation).
[CaNa3aN] was the Latin cunnus (and a reversal of Greek gyneco-) on the map of Aphrodite (Afro-deity) in north Africa. Its name changed to [YiSRa@eL] when [Ya3aKoV] / Jacob “fought with god and men” [Gen 32:29]. This represented a change in sovereignty from Africa to Asia minor.
[YiSRa@eL] is that body part that gives [@oSHeR] = delight to [@eL] = god when it is [YaSHaR] = straight, upright. Changing Jacob’s name from [Ya3aKoV] = “ankle; curved, bent” to [YiSRa@eL] = “straight, upright + god” represents an interesting physiological process.
In essence, fear of losing this area causes a subliminal castration anxiety. On the other hand, acknowledging the onomastic history of the area indicates that all of the names for the area existed before the names of the populations who claim the area.
I absolutely agree with Matt. Israel can place its capital anywhere they want in their country (which Tel Aviv is clearly part of Israel as it is under Israel’s control no matter how it was obtained etc).
No offense, but I don’t think in any of our lifetimes that we will see Jerusalem ever returned to Palestine or any other nation.
Tel Aviv is properly the capital of Israel but the Israelis wanted to have Jerusalem as its capital because that is where the one-time Temple, and its remnant the Western Wall (”Wailing Wall”)the holiest place to the Jewish people lies. They have built the Parliament building in the city so that it is effectively the capital. If the city were divided into Jewish and Palestinian halves the Western Wall would be well within the Palestinian part. The only sensible solution is to have the sections of religious significance as a proper international place not owned by any one of the faith communities. Israel could then have the rest as a properly recognised capital.
Wow. This discussion certainly generates a great deal of anger. Sami, the truth is that, if we want to be historical, Jewish people have always lived in that land, from time before the birth of both Christianity and Islam. The United Nations established the Jewish State of Israel following World War II. It is the Arabs who do not want to coexisit, whose actual teachings say Israel should be gone. The Hamas Charter has always stated “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it”
When Palestinians held the city of Jerusalem, no other religions except Muslims (and that included Christians wanting to visit historical sites) were permitted to enter the city. Jewish leaders have always allowed all faiths to visit their holy places within the walls.
So if I understand you correctly, Sue, you’re saying Jerusalem should be Israeli because they are “better”.
Its that kind of essentialist thinking that keeps the conflict moving and the blood to keep flowing.
There is a further aspect of history which should not be overlooked. I view the formation of the state of Israel as legal (as established by the UN) but not moral. It’s establishment caused thousand of Palestinians to become refugees in their own land. Some of those refugees and their descendants now live in Gaza and under these circumstances it is understandable why they might not recognise Israel.
I would acknowledge that Jews have long lived in the area but were in fact a minority at the time of Israel’s formation. Jewish migration to the area should not have occured without the full consent of Palestinians at that time.
Also the state of Israel is an essentially ethnic state where the rights of Jews are placed above others (something like South Africa under apartheid). Israel as it stands is not a society that will provide full political representation to all sections of society. If it were, it could even establish a one state solution with Palestians in a single government and proportional representation. That isn’t going to happen whilst it considers itself a state for Jews only.
See recent comments made in the UK parliament by Jewish MP Gerrald Kauffman comparing the present actions of the Israeli government to the actions of nazis against Jews in the second world war:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8
Is naming a capital not more like a constitutional thing? Something a country decides for itself? For one, in The Netherlands, Amsterdam is the official capital (no one would tell you differently). But the government, including the Parliament, are in The Hague…!
What an organization does within itself is logically solely its own business. If Isral wants Jerusalem as its capital, that’s the final word. Logic settles the question of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital city, unless, of course, we apply USA laws in which ‘what should be’ (political correctness) forces private organizations to do things, within the bounds of the organization, that they don’t want to do …
Because Israel illegally occupies a portion of Jerusalem – and unilaterally extended the borders of that city deep into the West Bank, the nations of the world are reluctant to reward Israel for aggressive behavior. If and when Israel comes to its senses, West Jerusalem will be the capital of Israel, and East Jerusalem will be the capital of Palestine. And the nations of the world will recognize them both.
Sue – No, Jews have not always lived in that land. Whether Jews migrated from elsewhere or emerged from the existing Canaanite population, it is safe to say the land was inhabited before the Hebrews lived there, and non-Jews remained when most Jews left, and non-Jews were still there when the Zionists arrived from Europe. It is likely that at no time in its history was there a Jewish majority in the region – that is, until the Zionists violently expelled the indigenous population (’47-49). (And now that they’ve got them caged in Gaza, they continue to wreak havoc upon them.)
The UN did not establish the state of Israel – the UN General Assembly recommended same IF both sides agreed. The Palestinians rightfully rejected it as an imposition which made the recommendation a legally moot point. (US changed its position as well.) The Zionists then expelled the Palestinians and overran the entire country except for land it agreed to split with Jordan (and Egypt). Israel has continued its expulsion of Palestinians to this day – and overran the rest of Palestine in ‘67 (and other Arab lands as well.) Israel’s behavior meets the UN definition of genocide as it is determined to terminate Palestinians as a national group, and any survivors will be dispersed among nations as miscellaneous Arabs. Thus Sue, it is not Hamas that is the threat to humanity but Labor and Likud and Kadima.
Of course Israel has the right to designate its own capital.I also think that every country and city should be called whatever the majority of its inhabitants call it.”Kalaallit Nunaat” instead of “Greenland”,,”Roma” instead of “Rome” “Nihon” instead of “Japan” “Sakartvelo” instead of “Georgia”..”Zhung Guo” instead of “China”.etc…Raedwulf
Whoa. Now, I am even more confused.
Wow, Barry. I can’t believe you’re blaming Israel for the war in ‘67. What would you do if your enemies were collectively massing their armies on your country’s entire border? Wait for them to inevitably charge right in or recognize the situation and take matters into your own hands for the sake of your own survival and sovereignty? Don’t blame Israel for having a better military. Blame the Arab countries for not doing their due diligence and starting a war they were about to quickly lose. Egypt and Jordan came to realize that they were not about to beat Israel militarily, which is a main reason they now have peace agreements with them. Perhaps Hamas will one day come to the same realization, but I doubt it. They are fundamentally backward, hanging on to ideologies long since otherwise put to rest in the history of the evolution of civilization.
Izzy, Where does your information about the psycholinguistics of the Misddle East come from?
Have to agree with Matt on this one. How can any country impose a capital on any other country. He is right. In fact the seat of Israel’s government is in Jerusalem. Its Parliment and Supreme Court. Why does Israel have to be held to a different standard than Australia or any other country? Can’t Israel just be Israel? Thats the real issue.
The nation can determine the location of its capital. And, as they place their government there, it is the capital.
Foreign governments can place their Embassies where they wish (assuming the host nation accredits them). I would imagine that the foreign embassies in Tel Aviv are there for security reasons most of all. (This approach is rare and might not have been very practical before modern transport)
To my memory, the capitals of Belize and Legos have changed and the Embassies moved later (at least the American ones). Also, off the top of my head, both Bolivia and South Africa have two capitals, each housing parts of the government.
I tried my best to come accross all these controversial discussions as some go far east whereas others go far west. So, I just raise such a qustion: Isn’t it possible for both to leave in peace. I hope that day comes soon to see the inhabitants of both capitals live peacefully side by side, the Jews in west Jerusalem and the Muslims in east Jerusalem. On that day I will be able to come to vist east Jerusalem and spend a couple of days in the Holly mosque (Masjid Al Aqsa), that is after getting a visit visa from the Palestinian Embassy at Khartoum (Sudan’s capital)…. ElTayeb Khalafallah.
Interestingly, Israel does not actually hold sovereignty over Jerusalem. It is a corpus separatum, an open city, in law. East Jerusalem is unquestioningly occupied illegally. I think the best path to peace would be for the US to stop its blind support for Israel and force it to negotiate with its neighbours instead of attacking them. Israel’s wars do it no good; the massacre in Gaza has further damaged Israel’s reputation, esp. in the western world and its defeat at the hands of Hizbollah in 2006 may yet push an even more extremist Israeli gov’t into office. Israel must recognise Palestine, acknowledge the Naqba, end its brutal occupation and forcibly remove the illegal colonists on the West Bank. If there is no justice there can be no peace.
By the way, Britain engineered this catastrophe in the 1917 Balfour Declaration. We have done nothing right since.
To Izzy:
The comments you made were spectacular. I second Leedurhamstone’s question…where did you find that info?
It’s really interesting. Any further information would really be helpful. Thanks!
I’m shocked this is such a hot topic of debate. Jerusalem is by no means the capital of Israel as, quite simply, Jerusalem as a whole DOES NOT BELONG to Israel and therefore Israel, quite simply, does not have the right to proclaim its capital on another country’s land. The United Nations understands this and nearly every other country in the world other than Israel understands this. The answer is simple
i want to find my brother Emiljano Jakoeli.He lived in Tel Aviv.I am his sister from albania and i dont now good english .an you have any information please send me a email in adress:xxpamelaxx@msn.com.Thank you
Michael – You can’t believe I’m blaming Israel for the ‘67 war? What planet are you reporting from? In the pre-dawn hours of an early June morning Israel’s airforce destroyed the sitting airforces of Egypt and Syria. That attack and its expansion to Syria amounted to a continuation of the war Israel carried out on Egypt in ‘57. Egypt was no more preparing for war than Israel – in fact, preparing far less than Israel, and had even sent its top diplomat to Washington in a failed effort to get Israel to back off. Israel nipped that last chace peace effort in the bud with its blitzkrieg. Let’s be clear, early Zionists wanted an Eretz Israel that included all or most of the Sinai, deep into Lebanon, and up to and beyond the Jordan River. They failed to get this in ‘48 and ‘56 – but succeeded in ‘67. The reason Israel came to peace with Egypt is that Israel realized (via the ‘73 war) that Israel would NEVER give up the Sinai to Israel. Hamas is popular because they not only deliver social goods to Palestinians they promise that they will get back all of the WB&G. That’s a noble goal that should be supported by all who believe in justice.
David and Matt – As I wrote before, much of Jerusalem and all of the WB&G are occupied. The world is wise not to reward Israel until it vacates all of Occupied Palestine. Until then, no embassies should move from Tel Aviv.
The statement near the end of my last post should have read: The reason Israel came to peace with Egypt is that EGYPT realized (via the ‘73 war) that Israel would never give up the Sinai to Israel.
Israel had been (as it has in all wars) planning the ‘67 war well in advance. The prior November (11/66) it had invaded Jordan as a warm-up precursor. And of course, Israel had been carrying out massacres of Palestinians and Jordanians periodically since it was granted statehood.
I am amazed by the intense interest in this question, “Is Tel Aviv or Jerusalem the capital of Israel?” In my first post I admitted confusion about fifty years ago and 38 comments later I am no better off.
Look, neither Jerusalem nor Tel Aviv amount to significant cities except for the emotions generated. Combined they have about one million people. Israel would fit in a 90X90 mile square if tessellated. And I suspect if the crusaders hadn’t done so much Holy Grailing Jerusalem would not be any more known to me than than many other ancient cities with holy claims. Why pick a place in the Middle East without oil to contest?
Since I went to the trouble of looking it up I will inflict my findings on you. My Random House Unabridged Dictionary, my Time Almanac 2007, my New Columbia Encyclopedia, and my NY Times Almanac 2000 all call Jerusalem the capital of Israel. But frankly I really don’t care.
Don – IF the fact that most of Jerusalem sits in Occupied Palestine does not clear up the matter as to why so few countries in the world recognize it as Israel’s capital, then I guess it is useless to further explain.
Barry, except for the emotional aspects I have no basis for argument either way. If you can’t accept Jerusalem as Israel’s capital I’m sorry it causes you stress. Otherwise, I really don’t care very much.
When I think about 10,000 to 20,000 children dying today and tomorrow, and many tomorrows from diarrhea because they don’t have safe water things take on a different perspective. Most of these deaths could be saved by a few drops of laundry bleach in their drinking water. A matter of a few cents. Should these lives be saved? How far can one stretch his sympathy?
Don – The same people who are occupying much of Jerusalem and all of the West Bank and Gaza are the same people who deny Palestinians safe water, food, and the right to the pursuit of happiness or even a life free of the daily jackboot of Israeli soldiers. If you want to find sick kids go no further than Gaza. Granting Israel the right to make Jerusalem its capital, an ill-gotten gain from its war of aggression on the women, men and CHILDREN of Palestine, is tantamount to giving the nod to genocide. It is those who want Jerusalem as the capital of Israel who deny safe water to Gazans.
Izzy:
Rubbish.
Here are some Hebrew mistakes:
Throat = GaRoN or TSaVaR.
GaRGeRet – you must mean GRoGeRet, which is Adam’s apple in English.
I have no idea what you mean by [@aTZiL]. It means ‘noble’.
Elbow = maRPeK.
Joint = miFRaK.
Both Elbow and Joint {as in, where bones meet} is from the root P-R-K — dislocation. Wrist = [@ama].
BoHeN = toe. Thumb = @agudal, from the root G-D-L = big.
YaReKH = Thigh. Buttocks = YaSHVan from sitting.
The vav in SHoK is a vowel, not a consonant. No connection to Kuwait here.
No such word as [SHaKeL], which is ‘weight’ and not heavy {=KaVeD}.
Gaza is not from ZooG. Back in the past, the ‘G’ wasn’t pronounced as G, but rather more like a kh-r-g mix.
YiSRael is from Y-SH-R = straight. NO connection to @oSHeR, from @-SH-R, ‘to approve’.
Just remember that back in the day there were many Semitic languages with very similar sounds, and some unsemitic, and sometimes it’s easy to search for connections when there are none.
Jerusalem is the only example to my knowledge where a country hasn’t the right to decide about its capital city.
It is very sad and ironical that the city who was the capital of a Jewish State about 3000
years ago is not recognized by countries which
came into existence much later and where there
is neither democracy nor respect of human right.
There is no reason neither religious nor political in my eyes why Jerusalem should be divided and shared as the capital of a future
Palestinian State.
Jerusalem is never mentioned in the Koran and during the centuries of Muslim rule over the
city it had neither religious nor political importantance for their rulers .
Ralph – There was no Jewish state 3000 years ago. There were several Jewish chieftainships that eventually united for a brief period, but that’s hardly a basis for claiming a city (which existed for thousands of years before the Hebrews arrived) as Israel’s eternal capital. With regard to human rights – by conquering and establishing Apartheid rule in what remains of Palestine – Israel forfeited any claim to that noble ideal. Jerusalem is in Palestine. When the Jews finally come to their senses and vacate its ill-gotten gains, then perhaps it is entitled to establish its capital in the Israeli portion of that city.
Jerusalem is mentioned few times in the Koran because the Koran is not that kind of book. Just as there are no food recipes in an auto-repair manual.
Jerusalem is a city that has roots to almost every religion in the world. This city should be declared an “open” city as the UN tried to do in the 40’s & 50’s.
Isreal’s claim as Jerusalem as it’s capital only inflames a continuing problem in the Middle-East that we are all growing tired of.
Anybody who made the comment that it is up to the country itself to decide its own capital is absolutely correct. Those who say Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel are just simply wrong. Just because a lot of other countries feel it should be Tel Aviv does not make it right, it just means they’re wrong too.
New Zealand- Go look at a globe and pay close attention to borders that are drawn on the globe. Then look close at cities that fall within those borders. After that comes the important part, go get yourself a clue.
Willis – There can be no recognized capital in an occupied country. Israel’s conquest of East Jerusalem is an ill-gotten gain. When Israel pulls back to its pre-67 border and a Palestinian state is established, Israel can move its capital to West Jerusalem. East Jerusalem will be the capital of Palestine.
Suppose the Bulgarians conquered the District of Colombia and made Washington their capital? Would you say it was up to the Bulgarians?
Sorry there is no country of Palestine and there never will be and there is no reason for one. If Palestinians don’t want them claiming Jerusalem they should stop them until then they can claim it as their capital if they feel like it.
See this is how civilization has worked forever, people take over land and decide what they want to do with it until someone pushes them out of it. Until that’s the case its too bad just deal with it. The capital is Jerusalem.
I thrive for knowledge, but acording to wekipedia, Jerulsalem is the capital. So, shich is correct?
Willis – Of course there is a reason for a nation-state of Palestine. They are under illegal occupation as per the entire world. So the nations of the world agree that Jerusalem cannot be the capital. When the occupation ends the Palestinians will declare a state – with East Jerusalem as its capital.
If you think might makes right – then I suppose you have no problem with Iran developing nukes and bombing Israel, no?
Carla – Wikipedia is not an authoritative source. Anyone can post to Wikipedia – and in this instance someone who is pro-Israel posted the disinformation that Jerusalem is the capital. The World says otherwise- but for that info you need an objective source, not Wikipedia.
I’m just saying that’s the way things go. The rest of the world doesn’t matter, they can declare it their capital if they feel like it. When someone else steps up and takes it good for them. As far as Iran goes they need to watch they do, they won’t bomb Israel because of the backlash that would come from it. The Palestinians need to stop bitching and man up a little.
Whatever man says about Jerusalem, G-d has said it is His city that He has chosen and loves, and where His temple will one day be raised again. In the Judaic-Christian faith, Orthdox Jews and Evangelical christians agree on this. It should be Israel’s capital under Israeli jurisdiction.
Yes alright well it should belong to Israel because they occupy it currently. Do not muddle my sound argument with razmataz bullshit
Willis – It might not matter where Israel puts its government quarters but the rest of the world DOES matter with regard to diplomatic relations. If other countries refuse to put their embassies and consulates in Jerusalem then relations are de facto downgraded.
Iran is no threat to bomb Israel. Iran has not attacked another country in hundreds of years – the same cannot be said of Israel (which violently and illegally occupies land not belonging to them even as I type this). The only threat of bombing has come FROM Israel, not to Israel. And the truth is, the Palestinians don’t bitch – it’s the Israelis who bitch, it is the Israelis who complain that the Palestinians resist as Israel takes their land.
Dennis – Jerusalem was built by the Palestinians thousands of years before the Hebrews arrived – it remained after most Jews left, and was still a functioning city when the Zionists (who have absolutely nothing to do with god or religion) arrived in the late 19th century. This is not god’s work, this is the usual colonial story of outsiders conquering natives.
Israel occupies it they can do what they want with it and no other nations don’t matter just because they refuse to put embassies there doesn’t mean Israel can’t declare it whatever they want. You’re 100% wrong.
Sorry..you’re wrong. They occupy it they can do what they want with it quit bitching. A nation can decide its own capital
Sorry..you’re wrong. They occupy it they can do what they want with it quit bitching. A nation can decide its own capital.
kk thx
I’ll say this again, Willis. Iran has not threatened to bomb Israel – in fact, Iran has not invaded another country in hundreds of years. Israel however, IS threatening to bomb Iran, the same Israel that illegally occupies the West Bank, Gaza, and Syria.
The Palestinians are under occupation – 42 years now – the world’s only occupation. Their lives are severely restricted and they are forbidden to participate in Israeli civil society. So the Palestinians can bitch legitimately. Israeli’s however, have no right to bitch – they are the occupiers.
And Dennis – God has nothing to do with this. There is no divine right to the region – such notions went out with the Enlightenment. Rather than religion, it has to do with the Geneva Conventions and other aspects of international law.
No Willis – The fact that other nation’s won’t put their embassies and consulates in Jerusalem speaks volumes. If they did so, it would legitimize the occupation. And as the world has spoken, the occupation is illegal – thus no embassies. Israel can put its own government offices there – but the nation’s of the world will meet them in Tel Aviv.
No see you have a failure to comprehend anything which is why you’re an idiot. Jerusalem is officially the capital of Israel “of Israel” other nations may not want to recognize but sorry it doesn’t matter. It just shows other nations opinions, this won’t change until they no longer occupy the region get over it.
and that’s fine I know other nations meet them in Tel Aviv so that they don’t piss off the rest of the Middle East that’s the only reason. It doesn’t make it their capital sorry good game have fun no rematch take your garbage elsewhere.
Oh and PS you’re obviously too bias to talk about this subject you don’t “illegally” occupy somewhere this isn’t like some state of New York law or something where a neighbor trespassed onto someone’s yard. When you take over an area its yours until you are pushed out.
Willie – Israel is dying to have other countries recognize Jerusalem as its capital – positively desperate to have them do so. But everybody in the world understands that the occupation is illegal, (never mind the ethnic cleansing and persecution). So, let’s understand the reason I say it’s an illegal occupation. In 1967 Israel attacked its neighbors and in so doing, conquered and occupied parts of their countries. The United Nations immediately passed Resolution 242 calling for Israel to vacate the areas it occupied – and the UN confirms that resolution every year. Thus the nations of the world have decided that these are ill-gotten gains. So, they have to give it up. Then they can put their capital in West Jerusalem.
In the meantime, if you are suggesting that the use of force is a valid way to obtain land – then are you willing to give over your country by force? Might makes right, no?
Well first of all no one would be able to take my country by force and secondly, the UN is a joke, it’s just a bunch of ineffective talk. They never get anything done and they can say they’re going to do something until they’re blue in the face but the bottom line is they don’t. I wouldn’t put too much stock in anything they say you misguided fool. They’ll say it’s “ill gotten” to make certain countries happy but then turn around and not take action.
Ah, Willie-Boy – So I see that your argument rests entirely on the notion that Israel can ignore world opinion – not on any moral structure. What we are talking about is UN Res 242, a resolution passed by the nations of the world that make up the UN, not passed by the UN organization to make certain countries happy. You get the difference? it’s not the UN itself doing this to make nation’s happy – it’s the nation’s themselves. At any rate, the only thing holding you guys up is US welfare and diplomatic cover in this very UN. Otherwise, Israel goes back to its original borders – and leaves the WB&G like it had to leave Egypt and Lebanon. You know, one time long ago, before your time Willie-Boy, Egypt almost defeated Israel, but Israel was bailed out by Kissinger. Don’t be so certain about Israeli victories.
But let’s get back to the original point – Tel Aviv is your capital. It does not matter where the Knesset meets, it only matters what the world accepts and rejects.
Oh and one other thing the legal, executive, and judicial branches are all in Jerusalem which is where their capital actually is.
GG HF NO RE THX BYE. Owned By Willis Parns Inc. Owning misinformed idiots since 1889.
Oh my god seriously? Before My time? Its hardly before my time. What are you some 18 year old Palestinian hopeful? lmao. Yes it is the UN itself. By the way it’s an orginization made up of..Countries. None of them care about this bullshit.. they are all economic giants concerned with their own affairs they honestly don’t care about Israel or what land they occupy. Israel will never go back to its original borders because the only group that has the power to make them actually cares less whether or not they kill off all of the Palestinians. Actually the bottom line is the Middle East is way to overpopulated as it is, job creation lags way behind entrants into the workforce which is why the Middle East is NOTHING. Therefore none one actually cares about what happens in the Middle East, it’s the only part of the world that keeps the rest of us from moving on into an improved advanced society. The Middle East is a stigma on the Earth that ironically started humanity and is now doing nothing but holding it down
Tel Aviv is not the Israeli capital sorry learn something about geography thanks. Please don’t refer to it as my capital I don’t live in Israel I live in the west though I’ll let you guess where.
You’re clearly too bias to talk about this issue. Since you keep spouting false statements as if you actually believe them.
Every top source will back me up on this because it’s true. Oh yeah and guess what when America wants something we get it end of story.. We’re the final say on who does what, what is what, and who gets what, let the good times roll Zheehod.
and nothing ever gets done in the UN it’s all just a bunch of talk, they’ll say one thing to appease the victims but then never act on it sorry.
Willie-boy – Even the US does NOT recognize Al-Quds (the Arab name for the city) as the capital. The United States recognizes Tel Aviv as the capital. So the various branches of Israeli government can meet in Jerusalem or they can meet at the supermarket – but the world says Tel Aviv. And that burns Israel up. Hey, maybe when Jerusalem is ALSO the capital of Palestine, you both can keep your capitals there.
Israel is not a country; Israel is a State, as is Palestine. Perhaps you have missed all of the recent news about the fighting over control of the land there.
Furthermore, East Jerusalem is nearly all Palestinian, if I recall correctly, at least until that area is ethnically cleansed also.
@ Willis – having just read a long string of your posts, may I add that opinions and posturing such as yours is the reason why extremists – both Israeli and Palestinian – control the dialogue, and by extension, the bloodshed, today.
Barnabas – Though you recognize that Palestine has been ethnically cleansed, you seem to think the Palestinians should take a tone of moderation. The truth is, all parties in the Arab world have offered recognition of Israel – 22 Arab League states, and both Fatah and Hamas. This is truly moderation. That moderation goes unrecognized in the American mainstream media. On the other hand, Israel’s Netanyahu recently said that continued construction of Israeli settlements in the West Bank should not be an excuse for Palestinians to refrain from negotiations. That’s the extreme position – and it is entirely Israeli.
why doesn’t Israel, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all just combine into one large nation called Retardistan? All this conflict does is waste the world’s time. The civilized countries of the world are trying to focus on more important things and all the third world Middle East and the Maghrib does is impede our progress.
Because Israel illegally occupies land that does not belong to it. The world will be a much better place when Israel goes back to Israel.
No it won’t the Middle East always has and always will be huge waste of space that does nothing but holds the world back with trivial land disputes. Just keep fighting each other over small plots of land the rest of us will continue to have a civilization.
No. Everything is connected. The reason 9/11 happened to the US is because of US policy in the Middle East. So you see, unless the land issues are resolved. ‘the rest of us will’ find we cannot just ‘continue to have a civilization.’ US policy and practice comes back to haunt us.
No that’s not why 9/11 happened..terrorist attacks happen everywhere so don’t get started on that because you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s fine though because the Middle East will never do anything for the world except produce oil. Oh and by the way since that expiration date is quickly approaching you should realize that the number 1 largest oil field is off the coast of Brazil and Alaska is close behind. The Middle East will lose it’s only saving grace and the America’s take over completely. It’s going to be such a shame for you morons.
The west is greater than you.
The answer is found in Genesis 15:18, “On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates. . . .(NKJ)”
From the Nile River in Egypt to the Euphrates in the Near East, so the capital of Israel IS Jerusalem.
Willis – As is commonly understood, Israel’s occupation of Palestine is viewed in the Middle East as a cancer – a gross violation of the just rights of the Palestinian people – and as gross theft of Arab land. That it is supported by the US along with other US transgressions in the region is the reason that al-Qaeda attacked the US.
B Ayotte – This conflict has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. You might as well be citing Ladies Home Journal.
zheehod- I guess you like to play with words,jihad. I have given you the truth, now you can either accept it or reject it. God Bless.
Zheehod..al-Qaeda is nothing, they’re absolutely nothing, they’re not even a pimple on the United State’s ass. Life goes on and we could care less what you or anyone else thinks of our policy in the Middle East. We go where we want, when we want and that’s the way it’s going to be deal with it.
B ayotte – I reject it as irrelevant. You have no idea what the truth is.
Willis – Yes, it is commonly understood that Israel cares not what happens to the US – Israel will do as it pleases. That’s because Israel is the ally of no one. However, Americans have to ask – how many Americans should die for a morally bankrupt foreign policy.
everyone.
I think Israel’s Capitol should be on the USS LIBERTY. The U.S. Navy ship ISRAEL ATTACKED on June 8th 1967 that KILLED 34 and wounded 174 U.S. Servicemen. That way the WORLD could remember that ISRAEL is No ONE’s Friend!. REMEMBER the LIBERTY!!!
Good point boatops. Willis should also know that the United Nations Security Council and the General Assembly declared Israel’s declaration of Jerusalem as its capital, “a nullity.” (SC Res 478 of 8/20/80 and GA Res 35/169 of 12/15/80)
That should put this issue to rest.
No it doesn’t because you’re still wrong. No independent country or countries can impose a capital city upon another independent country. The best they can do is “declare” things and give opinions but sorry in the end as long as Israel is an independent country they have the right to decide their own capital. Jerusalem holds the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of their government and have declared it their capital regardless of what any other country thinks. End of story Im right you’re wrong stop talking.. shut up. Willis Parns Inc.
Oh and PS: If other countries don’t like then guess what they have to take the land themselves and quit their whining and stop hoping that some outdated rhetoric and slow-moving, do-nothing council helps them out because in the long run the UN could care less whether or not that land is actually restored to the palestinians. See we real countries worry about things like the world economy and advancing the species not fighting over desert terrain that means nothing.