The New York Times discusses the lack of a coherent Kosovar identity in the Serbian province of Kosovo that is likely to declare independence in the next few weeks. What do you think?
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A Kosovo identity? mmm. ah Serbian! They are born in Serbia. These types of politics need to stop and we the United States need to stop our lies against humanity!
WHAT DO YOU MEAN SERBIA!! KOSOVO IS NOT PART OF SERBIA IT WAS TAKEN AWAY FROM ALBANIA AFTER WORLD WAR 2, READ SOME HISTORY, WHY DO U THINK AMERIA HAD TO COME INTO KOSOVO FOR BECAUSE SERBIA WAS KILLING ALBANIANS FOR NO REASON KILLED UP TO 10,000 PEOPLE,CUT THE KIDS UP RIGHT IN FRONT OF THERE PARENTS DONT BELIEVE ME YOU CAN SEE PICTURES AND VIDEOS EVERYWHERE , AND YOU EXCEPT KOSOVO TO STAY PART OF SERBIA !!! WHATS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE , KOSOVO WILL GETS ITS INDEPENDENCE AND IF NOT THEN THEY WILL FIGHT FOR IT .KOSOVO WAS PART OF YUGOSLAVIA ITS NOT PART OF SERBIA JUST LIKE HOW IT WAS WITH BOSNIA AND MONTENEGRO, SO THE ALBANIANS SHOULD JUST FORGET ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE THEY KILLED AN RAPED AND JUST BECOME PART OF SERBIA, THATS WHY I HATE WHEN PEOPLE DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ALBANIA OR KOSOVO TALK ABOUT INDEPENDENCE YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED SERBIA HAS BEEN TRYING TO KILL ALL KOSOVAR ALBANIANS IN KOSOVO EVER SINCE WORLD WAR 2 SO THEY COULD CLAIM IT PART OF SERBIA IF THERE WERE NO ALBANIANS LEFT. THERES NO WAY KOSOVO WILL BECOME PART OF SERBIA EVER!
BLAME JOSIP BROZ TITO THE COMMUNIST FOR THESE ACTIONS!!!not THE SERBIAN PEOPLE WHOM WHO HAD BEEN PEACEFULLY COEXISTING WITH THEIR NEIGBOURS FOR CENTURIES UNTIL ALL OF THESE STATES SUDDENLY WANTED THEIR INDEPENDANCE!TITO IS CROATION AND YET YOU STILL BLAME THE SERBIAN PEOPLE AGAINST WHOM EVEN WORSE AUTROSITIES WERE PERPETRATED!READ ‘our sattelite croatia’ and then remember SERBIA was under the OPRESSION of THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE for 500 YEARS PRIOR TO ANY OF THESE EVENTS!HAVENT THE SERBIAN PEOPLE SUFFERED ENOUGH???SLOBODA ILI SMRT!!! MIHAILO PETROVIC from ADELAIDE (where I am still living in EXILE)
Nothing like a Kosovo thread to get the emotions out.
Ron,
That’s serious non-sense you are talking about. The Albanians have wanted Kosovo as ‘Thaci’ recently said for 100 years. It was never Albanian. It will probably never be Albanian. Just remember the battle of Kosovo in 1389 when the Serbs fought against the Turks for it. The Serbian traces are well visible to those who care to open their eyes. The churches and monasteries are 1,000 years old…the Albanian mosques are 2 or 3 years old. Hitler attempted to give Kosovo to Albanians because the Albanians joined the Nazi’s…it never happened. The Albanians have the most to thank to Mr. Tito who actually drew boundaries to Kosovo in 1974, which never previously existed, which obviously defines that Kosovo could not have ever been Albanian. Once Tito defined these borders, it gave the Albanian separatist cause a much easeir quest for indepence, which as I stated will probably never happen. And if it does, there will be and endless for for centuries.
I suggest that you read up some history books written by someone other than Enver Hodzha.
Mr. Smith.
THE BATTLE WAS ACTUALLY 1889 led by KARA DJORDJE(BLACK GEORGE) PETROVIC. it was after almost 500 yrs of ottoman opression and Kosovo was the part of Yugoslavia where SERBIA regained her independance from the Islamic horde and was free to be ORTHODOX(which simply means “the RIGHT way”)again!!!I agree with Mr Smith about about the 74 boundary nd further say that too much SERB BLOOD has been spilt on the ground of Kosovo for HER to EVER be ANYTHING OTHER THAN SERBIAN! SA VEROM U BOGA SLOBODA ILI SMRT!!!
Mr. Smith,
Thank you for the truth. I was in Kosovo on a pilgrimage to Serbian Holy Lands. Serbian Monasteries have dotted the landscape sinc eht 1300′s. I doubt that the “Christian” Albanians built these. But there is ample evidence that they have defaced the magnificent frescos.
Shame on them for that but bigger shame on American politics for letting this happen.
Mr. J
none of u live there so u cant just talk out of ur ass, ur family didnt have to deal with all that shit during the war, so ur saying that kosova should just go back to serbia just like that ??? u actually think that will happen never ,NEVER! Germany Italy great Britain and America already said yes for independence and the European union and thats all that matters Greece spain and Romania could go screw them selfs and dosent even matter what russia says anymore,either way you look at it theres no way kosova will go back to serbia , YOU WILL ALL FEEL STUPID ONCE JANUARY PASSES AND THEY GET THERE INDEPENDENCE EITHER BY EUROPE OF ON THERE OWN.
It’s one isue that kosovo must be independent sun as posible, before evil-serb of the balkans jeoporsice situation in balkans.
Kosovars are unike people, and have nothing to do vith serb people are culture, even albanians(kosovars) was ruled by so called ex-yugoslavia.
Kosovars newer abey serb rulle, but albanians was forced under brutal presure ni decades by ex-yugoslavia and then after many war loses proclaim as a serbia, grabing inside also kosovo withing it’s border.
There is also other parts of kosovo where serbs put inside serbia, but actualy they are albanian parts, because there are and was totally populated with albanians, like for example the cities todaay is in serbia; Nis, medvege-leskovac, presheva(preseva) bujanovc, rac, vranje and meny others, where albanian people was murdered and masacred by serb ataks, and thos escape in to kosovo today they have theyr second-name are sect-name ass legitimity from which parts parts of serbia they where driwen off!
Albanian-Sect-govor (jashari sec.nam most, Vranjevci-vranje
sect-rac(raci-raqi or gashi sec.name.
I em not talking without facts, but it’s easy to pruve anyone of you throgh Yahoo.com searsh like “raci, raqi, jashari, vranjevci, gashi and more, i cant remember to mention right here now, but i may comming back with new facts, and NO lies like this serb-guys smith and robert lie here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3guX-zVf9EM#mW5gRAPgUQ8
Fact that serb government juring 80-90 and up to 1998 have ordered serbs to bild churches much as they can in kosovo region…, so in future to clime as part of serbia!
Watch this movie clip’s, it’s facts!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QUp9E1Wckg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhu5u6rG6Qg&feature=related
Gud bles USA for being true democrat and humanitarian people, menu europeans to!:-)
Mr. J,
It’s very nice to know that there are people like you, who invest their own time to find the truth.
A huge shame on the American politics.
Mr. Smith.
@Ron, First of all if you would like to be taken seriously learn how to write and behave. If you didn’t know, writing in all caps is considered yelling in the Internet world. Second, your knowledge of history is like a 5 year at best. Kosovo’s history is long, deep and complicated. In short… As of right now, Kosovo IS part of Serbia like it or not. Should Kosovo gain it’s independence is another question. In my opinion, it shouldn’t. Why? Because, after NATO troupes landed in Kosovo it became clear that the Albanian majority needed not to be defended against Serbians, they had extreme quantities of military equipment and most of their exile was staged. Many civilians both Albanian and Serbian were hurt in the war, but to say Serbian kill 10,000 people and Albanians were red roses is ridiculous. Kosovo should be self govern though for the most part, because Albanians will not except to be under Serbian umbrella anymore. However, full independence would be a tragic event for the international law, because no country would give full independence to part of it’s land only because it’s inhabited with people with different religion, race etc. or just because they want it. Also, both Serbians and Albanians should at least try to learn how to live together in peace. NATO forces should try to unite not separate. In the end, it might seem unrealistic now, but in 10 or 20 years, the whole region will be in European Union where borders will be of no significant importance. Until then…
Kosova is a kosovar land.It does have its identity in terms of tradition,culture,history,language etc.Its ancient name is Dardania and it was ihabited by illyrians which undoubtedly are ancestors of albanian people.The language of kosovars is albanian (one of the oldest languages in Europe). Kosovars were and are known as very brave and honest people who are trustworthy and have a crystal clean history,the people who had never had invaded any of their neighbouring countries but who had always fought different agressors starting with Romans,Ottomans and Slavonics.It was very prosperous country and its documented legislation dates back to the 15 century which like in other prosperous countries of civilized Europe was called Canon.Even though it was attractive prey for different invaders it maintained its identity.As per ridiculous claims that Kosova is part of some Slavonic pseudostate I would like to give you some facts:
Europe of the 13th century was very well established continent and it is foolish to claim that the eastern coast of Adriatic was unihabited and that it was discovered by Slavonic people who came from the mountanious area of north western Asia.
There is very strong empirycal facts that many slavonic religious sites were built on top of the existing kosovar temples.I would like to note another point regarding these so much talked churches – Does building of a church in the middle of Prishtina in 1990s in the property of the National Library(during the occupation) mean that after 100 years someone can claim that it is a cradle of the builders civilisation or is it just a continuation of centuries long faul attempt to write a false history?
Finally I would just like to hail civilized states of the world for paying back the long standing debt to one of the oldest members of REAL EUROPEAN FAMILY – KOSOVARS.
ALBANIANS BRAVE?HONEST? AND TRUSTWORTHY???pls you ALBANIANS are mainly SHIPTARI an CIGANY thieves liars and travelling FREAK SHOWS…GET A LIFE!!!
People, especially Shiptari (Albanians);
The best evidence that Kosovo is Serbian land are the thousands of Christian Orthodox churches and monasteries that was built a hundreds of years ago. And that should be the end of discusion for the Kosovo issue!
Kosovo is Serbia and Serbia is Kosovo!
Albanian leaders changed true history and now millions of Albanians think that Kosovo is a part of their country…that is so wrong! And all that because of the some people’s greedy. Think about it Albanians… You came to Balkans as Turkish servants and now you think that you have right to takeover someone’s land…But all that is just part of the Enver Hodza’s idea of The Great Albania. The same thing that happens to us in Serbia will happen with Macedonia, Greece and Montenegro in the future…just wait and see!
But we can tell just two words “NO WAY” people, Serbian people wouldn’t allow that!
I read all the abovementioned comments and it sad to read what some of the guys wrotte. I read some many history books written either from americans, british, albanians and serbs as you guys did. But have you ever seen the war, did you ever feel it, did you see the brain of small kid in front of you, killing the relatives, rapes, torture, no you dont, and unless you see it I am not even able to make you understand what that feeling is. I think you guys should be focussed on facts and serb people not only miloshevic did a huge mistake, they can never erase a population which was always here, its just useless. For the sake of other serbs who wants to live in Kosovo, I think the best think that serb politics and serb people should do ask an apology from the albanians for the crimes they committed, and believe me they did a lot of crimes and they were not simple revange from individuals which thing happened also from albanians but it was a pure organised genocide and ethnic cleansing. And regarding the monasteries,I respect them more then you do, first because they have albanian foundation and then because are mine, its my land.
Laura, you and other Albanians who think like you, just have to admit the fact that Kosovo is part of Serbia and your wish to take it over from us, that, by the way, makes you a terrorists. That’s final and that is truth.
Unfortunately, killings were happening on both side, but Serbian army is not present on Kosovo from 1999 and thousands of Serbs were killed and a hundreds of thousands became refuges since then…who did it? Milosevic?! I don’t think so…
Ron & John,
You speak of the Albanian love for the USA. Why do Kosovo Albanians plan terror attacks on the Fort Dix of USA?
Mr. Smith
DONT TELL ME ABOUT KOSOVA OR ALBANIAN HISTORY I KNOW IT ALL THE WAY BACK TO ILLYRIA , UR NOT EVEN ALBANIAN SO STOP THINKING U KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT A LAND U DONT EVEN LIVE IN , AND IM WRITING IN CAPS CUZ I AM YELLING CUZ U PEOPLE HAVE NO CLUE WHAT UR TALKING ABOUT, U CAN TALK SHIT ONLINE BUT LETS SEE IF U HAVE BALLS TO SAY IT TO AN ALBANIAN PERSONS FACE,YOU THINK WE WONT INDEPENDENCE FOR NO REASON YOU DONT JUST KILL ALBANINS THEN ASK FOR KOSOVA TO BE PART OF SERBIA AGAIN,THATS WHY I LOVE LIVING IN NY GREEKS AND SERBS GET THE SHIT BEATEN OUT OF THEM EVERYDAY BY ALBANIAN, FEBRUARY 6 WILL BE THE INDEPENDENCE SAY IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT LETS SEE WHO WILL WIN THIS WAR
Why are there so many of you who really believe this Serbian propaganda? This is all BS – The Albanians are the most pro-American people in the whole world. The Albanians are know to be some of the most (if not the most) tolerant people in the world.
Albanian Muslims and Albanian Christians have lived side by side for centuries, and there hasn’t been any religious conflicts between them. Now some of you think “Why did they burn Serbian churches if they are so tolerant?” I have an answer to that – They burned churches, because the Serbs were burning mosques in Serbia. The burnt the Al Aga Mosque in Nis(Serbias third largest city) to the ground, and the police and firemen didn’t interfere at all. Why are these burnings of mosques not mentioned in the media? Why is it only the burnings of the churches, that is mentioned? This is a conflict only seen from the Serbian point of view, and that’s what makes this so unfair. The Serbs manage to portray the Albanians as radical muslims, when they are really not.
Serbs are way more radical christian fanatics, than the Albanians are Muslims.
So I am very happy to welcome the worlds youngest state – Kosova!
You have our support – America & Albania & Kosova!
@ everyone that says that Kosova is Serbian because there are churches and manastyrs. I guess you came right to the Byzantize time, which even that was created by an Albanian, Kostandin the Great. So what happened to these very ancient people of Illyria, the part that was called Dardania. I suggest that some of you 5 year olds here go and read some history, and when you grow up, come and discuss about parts of the world that some of you have no clue.
you retards dnt no what the *&$# your talkin about only the albanians that own that land no why we deserve our independence
First of all i am sure that most of you dont know where kosovo or albania is located. Second i have seen with my eyes what serbs had done and trust me i will never forget it for the rest of my life. i wont forget the face of the kids were their mothers were killed right in front of them, i wont forget when the parents had to see their kids getting killed right in front of them. Serbians are criminals they killed unarmed civilians, that includes kids and women. An army country that does that does not deserve anything. Europe’s Supreme Powers give kosovo to Serbia, it was never theirs. Serbians Still live with the dream of the Greater Serbia.
Serbian Moved from Russia long ago so they have to go back to russia and not albanians to albania because Kosovo is Albania and it will be albania and nothing that you say or right in here or any where is going to take it from us. There will be independence. And in case
Serbia Wants to fight i will be the first solider on the battlefield and so will be millions of Albanians that live in Turkey, and ready will be the 6 million Albanians That live in USA, And ready will be all albanians around the word because Albanians are the greatest Warriors that the world will ever see.
Remember when KLA was formed it only had 150 soldiers…..i want all of you to recall the response
of the Albanians around the world in 1999 When KLA reached around 500,000 Soldiers in one month.
But war is not the answer to anything because in war there are no winers.
Serbia has to give up, it lost Kosovo, this time forever. Ether way i will never forgive Serbs for what they have done……never
BRING YOUR OWN BODY BAGS!!!WE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF DIGGING DITCHES…an likewise we SERBS will never forget nor FORGIVE that is GODS job ours is to clense you heathen filth from OUR LAND…EAT PIG AND DIE!!! SLOBODA ILI SMRT
Merry Xmas everyone, and I suggest you all to take it easy because Kosova is the land of Eagles where Kosovars are her sons and doughters….Kosovars have not come to invade the place from Karpate like Serbs did settle in Balkan. I attended a conference where a serb official started talking about Kosove by saying: Serbs started populating Kosova after the 10th century and some other non sense….however he wish he never said that when the chair of the department of political science of one of the universities here asked him to explain for the public who was there before you then, because certainly Europe has been populated thousands of years before 10th century…..and my dear friends that said it all….Albanians the descendants of Illyrians… people are not living in the serbian brainwashing boxes and are not blind to the horrific events thatwent on there. The history is there, might be about 100 years ago that Serbia started the terror against Kosovars but even if it goes to 1000 years we will never let barbarians ever take control and change our precious eagle land to wilderness:)Kosova is for Kosovars who want to live there in peace and harmony no matter their background nationality. Peace forever….
nikola,
your arguments are very pathetic. does the building of orthodox churches of a 100 years old mean that kosova must have always been part of serbia and therefore it must stay as part of serbia???
you dont seem to have the first clue of kosovas history, i can not go on to teach you the whole history word by word, but i will briefly explain to you how kosova became part of serbia.
kosovas history as Jon said is very long and complicated. if you were to take a good look at kosovas history , you will find out that kosova previously known by the name Dardania was part of Illyria and was inhabited by Illyrians, Illyrians being the ancestors of the Albanian people.
the slavic people(serbs etc) came to the balkans in the 6th century,kosova remained however albanian with its albanian inhabitants, however it was conquered by the ottoman empire in 1389.this remained the case until 1912,many wars took place during this time i.e.1st and 2nd ballkan wars etc. and finally At the ‘Conference of Ambassadors in London’ in 1912, kosova was assigned to serbia.
many other wars and conflicts took place again after that betwwen kosovan albanians and serbs and other countries as well. those are just a few little facts of kosovas history and how it became part of serbia but im sorry i can not go into more detail for you,
so if you think that the building of a few orthodox serb churches in kosova during the late 19th early 20th century is all there is to kosovas history and therefore it must mean that it is serbian and has always been part of serbia,and therefore should remain that way, you should think again.
people please do not attmpt to use history to support serbias claim over kosova as you will fail,and even if you wish to attempt to bring history into this make sure you actually know a little bit of history concerning kosova and serbia (and albania) to support what you are actully trying to say with proof. otherwise i would ask you to not mention history as you are just making your selves look foolish.
finally kosova has got an identity as someone else has already said and deserves its independence the sooner the better.
Ok… If I have to for the sake of argument, I will apologize for some of my Albanian compatriots here who seem to let their rightful emotions get the best of them. But seriously, I cant blame them. I’m not from Kosova, I’m speaking as a Christian Albanian from Tirana, who’s witnessed in person the human horror and refugee waves during the onslaught of 1999 where we had to take inn Kosovar families, driven off their homes by their very own armed Serbian civilian neighbors who were working in conjunction with Serb paramilitary troops.
Let me say this. It is not that we Albanians do not know the history and we don’t accept the fact that the Serbs have been present in the Balkans since the 11th century. We know that… heck… our very legends and folk stories tell us all about the slav incursions into the Balkans, their land grabs, pillaging, assimilation, conquers etc… We know that we share a few centuries of history with the slavs in Kosova. However, you also have to remember that we have ALWAYS been there as far as our culture can be remembered. And that is a heck of a long time, predating, Serbs, and even any local monotheistic religions such as Christianity or Islam for that matter. We were Christians before Serbs even showed up in the Balkans. We shared the same beliefs and churches with you at one point. However history took a turn, and it seems that some things are conveniently forgotten. After your defeat to the Turks, which I must say it was OUR COMMON defeat, the Serbs fiercely clinged to their religious roots in order to withstand the forces of Turkish assimilation, while the cornerstone of Albanian resistance was our very culture and language. Let’s not kid ourselves, we have never been happy neighbors. We have always resented having to share Kosovo with the Serbs, just as Serbs have always resented the very existence of other non-slavic Europeans (Albanians) in the region.
Just because the Serbs have churches in Kosovo that they revere their roots, that does not give them exclusivity of Kosova, no matter how strong their sense of entitlement is. History is one thing, and reality on the ground is another.
If you want to tackle Kosovo from a politically legalistic perspective, then you would do well to remember that Serbia was AWARDED KOSOVO by the allied forces only after the Second world war. This was the first time in history that Kosova was part of a country.. and that country was Yugoslavia, not Serbia. Off course the serbs knew the significance of not giving Kosovo a full republic status because of the majority Albanian population there and what that would mean to its right to secede. But my point is that us up to that point, this region did not belong to any government or state. It was a land shared by two different people (Albanians & Serbs), which was always ruled by local Fudal lords, be it Albanian or Serb. If an “unjust decision” to award a region majorly populated by Albanians, to Serbia, was made in the 1940s because of geo-political reasons, does that mean that Kosovo is to be held forever in limbo, and the fate of its people at the mercy of the cruel hands of Serb nationalists fueled by the that same nationalistic hate mongering propaganda tool that has the nerve to call itself an orthodox church?
It is time to finally set history straight, and let those who have been oppressed for so long have a chance to make Kosovo a land of people where freedom prevails and repression is actually punishable by law. Yes there is hate right now going on in Kosovo, because of all the bad blood, but I the few Serbs that were there were to actually want to have a future in Kosovo,…. And I am speaking as an Albanian when I say this,… I have a distinct feeling that the Albanians there would treat them with tolerance, and not oppress them.
The pretext of the absence of Kosovar identity is just mere excuses for inciting recessive discussions on the issue of independence.
Serbs are so weak at claiming land. They claim land cause a freaking church was build 1000 yrs ago. First of All Albanians the descedants of Illyrians, and Dardanians have been inhabitants of that land way before the slavs migrated to the region. And at the battle of 1389 or whatever it was, it wasnt just Serbs, but Albanians, and also many ehtnicities of the Balkans. Yous are pathetic, celebrating a day that your people got chopped na djust because you fought a battle in Dardania it doesnt make it yours. We Albanians fought the mighty Ottoman Empire for 25 years under the leadership of Gjergj Kastrioti, and a tiny race of Albanians destroyed the mighty ottomans who no one couldnt defeat and thanks to the Albanians, the West was saved.
This policy was continued by his successor, Paul II,(1464-1473).They gave him the title Athleta Christi.
For a quarter of a century he and his country prevented Turks from invading Catholic Western Europe.
You want traitors??? The Serbs are traitors and cowards
Although it is commonly believed that Skanderbeg took part in the Second Battle of Kosovo in 1448, he actually never arrived. He and his army were en route to reinforce the mainly Hungarian army of John Hunyadi, but the Albanians were intercepted and were not allowed passage by the forces of Dan II of Wallachia and Đurađ Branković of Serbia, as the latter had agreed that while he would aid Skanderbeg against the Venetians, he would not against the Turks
Dardania(Kosova) has never been Serbian, but it was an Albanian territory occupied by serbia. Serbs shouldnt even be talking about land, their killers and filthy, killing 200,000 bosnians and 10,000 Albanians. Greater Serbia is an imperialist idea and not a Ethnic one!
Long live Ethnic Albania
thousands of years and counting and Albanians are still here! Girlie men of Serbia couldnt take the land by force so they relied on the congress of Berlin to give it to them. Serbs were never a factor, in the region until 1989 when the new hitler came to power and screwed it up.
Unlike Yous, we dont fight for religion, all you Serbs and other numnuts say is CHRISTIAN THIS CHURCH THAT, who giveees a dammmm about a freaking church when people are being massacred. We dont fight for religion WE FIGHT FOR ETHNIC ALBANIA, AND TO DEATH WE WILL DEFEND ALL OUR ETHNIC LANDS. Now go read your bibles or whatever yous read, cause fairytales are more important to protect then the people, and the right for self ruling of a province to which ETHNICALLY has never been Serbian.
To all others, before commenting why not read something and take your religious crap minded out for a second and read history as it truly is.
Independence to Dardania, long live Ethnic Albania.
I would just like to add something regarding kosovar identity – In my opinion I think its perfectly fine to have different states with different identities who share the same language,as there are many examples in the world.
I think kosovar identity in terms of statehood is not less nor more significant than argentinian,brazilian,chilean,ecuadorian,puertorican (and all other spanish or portugese speaking countries) identity before these countries gained the independence.We have also examples in Europe like Austria,Switzerland,Malta,Cyprus,Luxemburg…
So lets celebrate and welcome the newest member(who has one of the oldest roots in Europe)of European nations who doesn’t lack identity but who will surely forge it further and who will add the missing colour in European Rainbow.
C.c.c….poor Albanians…
Did Macedonians, Greeks and Montenegrian also take the parts of your land in the past?
But let we say that all this you are talking about is true…
I didn’t get answer, who killed hundreds of Serbs after 1999 and why? And why the thousands of Serbs runaway from their homes on Kosovo? Those were all unarmed people who just wanted to live there in peace with you…
But no, you want the ethnic-clear Kosovo…
I don’t want to talk about this anymore because it is senseless.The fact is that you have your version of situation and we have ours, and everybody believes in it’s own, which is normal. But the truth is only one and only God knows what is it like.
By the way, when you talk about Serbs it seems like you mean that all the Serbian people were killing Albanians in 1999 and you hate all the Serbs…this is very, very, limited and sick thinking!
But it’s reality, we are never going to speak the ‘same language’.
No more of this topic…
Happy holidays to all!:)
Nicola, you are very right! Not all Serbians killed Albanians, but I can tell you that MANY of them, simple Serbian civilians, did in fact take arms to help the Serb paramilitary forces who were there to cleanse Albanian people off their villages. I heard personal accounts of people witnessing their Serb neighbors joining paramilitary militias and killing all Albanians they could get a hold of in their own village, raping any women on site, and torching all their properties… These are also the sights and accounts that most western journalists described. I say Western journalists, because we all know how skewed Serbian media’s accounts of events were during the war. The common Serbs in Belgrade were told that every killing was a fabrication by the KLA in collaboration with the west, and that it was Serbs who were actually being massacred and driven out. They were told that Albanians were not fleeing Serb pillaging and killings but they were fleeing for fear of NATO bombing. How absurd! Albanians were fleeing systematic killing and ethnic cleansing by the millions, (Internet is littered with pictures and videos of those massacres) being herded by Serb paramilitary troops onto trains and into neighboring Albania & Macedonia thus effectively cleansing Kosovo. Yet the Serb state media kept feeding the propaganda that they were the main victims here, and how the West was taking yet another piece of beloved Yugoslavia away from them. It goes to show a lot how international media was virtually cut off in Belgrade during the war…
One more thing does stick out as a thorn on my side as a Christian Albanian. The behavior of the Serbian Orthodox church during this entire time has been instigative rather then pacifying! When an Orthodox Church harbors known war criminals, and spreads propaganda about taking back Kosovo while inciting hatred on Albanians, do not be surprised if those churches are burned to the ground, because the holiness and principles of love and peace for which a church should stand, have been replaced by racism, nationalism, corruption and politics. That is no longer a place of worship – it is rather a propaganda center for Serb self-entitlement of Kosovo. I am not condoning in any way the burning of historical buildings, because that heritage should be saved for future generations, but as an Albanian I understand why it happened!
Least but not last – this was NOT a religious war in any way! We Albanians harbor all 3 major religions, orthodox Christian, Muslim, and Catholic, not to mention Protestant and other smaller groups. We have always been the most religiously docile people in the planet – respectful to each other, and always intermarrying in between religions. Never in history have we had religious conflicts and part of the reason for that is that majority or our population is secularly educated and non-religious, or if they are religious, they practice a very relaxed version of it. I think that the biggest lie in this war by Serb propaganda was to try to taint the war, or the KLA for that matter under any religious colours. The funny thing is that when extremist Muslim Arabs heard Serb propaganda, a few of them decided to play “mujahadeen” and join the KLA, only to be bitterly disappointed and find out that the KLA didn’t give a crap about their Muslim religious motives, and that this was an ethnic war. Needles to say most of these Arab nuts left immediately and the rest were kicked out by the KLA. lol
BTW… Marry Christmas to everyone
Kosova has an identity, has had one for over 2,000 years and will continue for another 2,000 years. That identity always has been and always will be Albanian. Also, as for those churches in Kosova they were built by Albanians, who by the way converted the whole region to Catholism during the reign of Constantine and his nephew Justinian, both Albanian.
The Albanians have a lot to say, but not one has answered ‘Why with such love for the USA’, Albanians from Kosovo plan terror attacks on Fort Dix?
The Albanians talk of being the decendents of Illyrians. These claims are based on incomplete information that happened thousands of years ago, when people did not have many way to preserve their writings. And if so, why do you not call your county Illyria? With this weak interpretation of history, based on no facts, that happened thousands of years ago, you think you can claim Kosovo, parts of Macedonia, Greece, Montenegro? Ridiculous claims for anyone with just a tiny bit of common sense.
If the Albanians are such proud people, why do you change your faith during the Turkish invasion? Will you have changed your faith again if Hitler won? Will you change now for the Western invasion. Tough times come and you go with the flow. This makes you weak as people. There is no way you can argue against it. The Albanians to be admired are those that kept their faith during the hard times of the Ottoman rule, like the Christian Albanians.
As one reads through this discussion thread, it’s quite easy to tell who is civilized and who is not.
Mr. Smith
To save one’s religion, shows a certain strength… strength of your faith and your identity which is amalgamated with your faith. Their religion is where Serbs drew their identity from for centuries. Albanians have never been hyper religious people… Their cultural roots are way stronger then their religious ones, which goes to show you why although of many religions, Albanians have always stuck together, never bickering about religious bigotry. Albanian culture lies on a different set of moral values, “humanistic” and family values – values which are innate, and are not instilled through any religious doctrine. Personally I think that says a lot more about a culture, then the zealous need to cling to any one religion, but that’s my opinion. The common ancestral conscience between Albanians and the underlying cultural connection was strong enough to keep us unassimilated for millennia, although under constant pressures of the Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman Empires. Our language is undeniably the oldest in the Balkans, predating even Classical Greek by roughly a millennia, although sharing much of its roots with the old Greek, under their common Pelazgian ancestry. As a matter of fact, much of the Old Greek still has many common root words with today’s northern Albanian dialects, toponyms, unique linguistic grammatical commonalities, names of old Hellenic and pre-Hellenic deities, and common traditions that only make sense in these two languages. But I wouldn’t expect these details to ever make it to Serb history or anthropology classes, which seem to be only preoccupied with the period AFTER the arrival of Slavs into the Balkans between the 10th and 11th century AD, or alternatively how to “prove” their pre-set anti-Albanian thesis. So I don’t blame you Mr. Smith, I don’t blame you at all for your self righteous, derogatory remarks on a culture much older then your own, because you, much like your brethren are victims of the still fresh nationalistic indoctrination of your decaying Serbian education system that still embraces Milosevic’s dogma, and that of your archaic orthodox Church!
And to answer the question of Fort Dix – I have no clue why an Albanian would do that. We as Albanians don’t even have an answer for that, because we don’t understand it! Every nation has its idiots, and at least we are willing to admit to them and actually let them face justice, instead of harboring them in our midst…… do I need say more?
That does not change the fact that Albanians are the most pro-Western people in the Balkans and probably the most pro-American in the world at this point. A few bad apples won’t spoil our long standing relationship with the US, sweetheart! It was the intervention and good will of the Americans that allowed for Albania’s independence in 1912, and it’s the same good will that will make Kosova free 96 years later. So as to the reason we like the US – well, we feel indebted to them for their show of humane thinking and sympathy towards us, plus its smart geo-politics… Remember what Darwin said.. It’s not the strongest who survive, its those who are most adaptable to change.
Merry Christmas Mr. “Smith”!
It is an unfortunate occurrence that “serbs” refuse to come to terms with the truth about the origins of their ancestry, or rather the lack there of. In an attempt to create a national identity for the “serb” people the “serbian” Orthodox Church created and hence perpetrated a series of myths based solely upon exaggerated events which ultimately had zero relevance. The origins of the “serbian Orthodox Church” was not founded in Kosovo, it merely moved there after the “original foundation” in central “serbia” was burnt down. Furthermore, the patriarchate does not have any continuous history as an institution, it was recreated by the “modern Yugoslav state” in 1920 after having been defunct for 154 YEARS. “Serbian” society as a whole, seeking a validation of identity, refuses to even consider the true “serb” origins because doing so would be to admit that “serb national identity” is based upon a lies, myths, and exaggerations.
The Albanians however are quite a different story. Dardania (known today as kosovo) has a long documented history in terms of the Albanian population. One only needs to look to the Bible, the new testament specifically, in the first century A.D. when Saint Paul went to Illyria to spread Christianity. Where were the “serbs” during this time frame, in Russia since this is centuries before the “serb” migration into the Balkans (6,7 century). Whom did Saint Paul find in Illyria, Illyrians,(known as Albanians today)thus converting the pagan Illyrian (Albanian)population to Christianity. It is an unfortunate tragedy that the Albanian people in Dardania (kosovo)have been subjected to repeated attempts of repression of the Albanian National Identity, culture, history, heritage, human rights, education, and the fundamental right to self determination.
The current situation in Dardania (Kosovo) is the result of the bizarre “serbian nationalist” and “serbian orthodox church” rhetoric that “moderate” Belgrade politicians, (supported and encouraged by Russia), have made their own careers upon and “sebian” society has been built upon. “Serbian” society, as a whole has the most to lose in this equation, as it is not an easy thing to admit that “serb” existence, and “national identity” is based upon nothing more then a fraudulent myth, hence the reasoning behind “serb” reluctance to do so.
The Albanian people of Dardania (Kosovo) have just as much of a right to self determination and freedom from oppression as any other newly formed country from the former Yugoslavia. Slovenia, INDEPENDENT, Croatia, INDEPENDENT, Bosnia, INDEPENDENT, Montenegro, INDEPENDENT…DARDANIA (KOSOVO) INDEPENDENT.
RROFTE SHQIPERIA ETNIKE.
Your arguments are quite funny. It’s clear the Albanians don’t even know their identity: from Illyrians, Dardanians, Albanians, Shqiperians, Kosovars, to many other names you’ve called yourselves through time. I am curious what your next name will be!
What you describe as your survival of the adaptable, I interpret as slimy cozying up to whoever is in power. Then you joined Ottomans, you joined, Austria and Hungray, you joined Hitler, you joined Stalin, you joined the west at this time. This is all why you don’t know your identity and why you have so many names.
Then you talk of Albanian suffering. But how is that possible when you’ve always been with the stronger power? So you’ll say, the Serbians made you oppresed! But how, when in the 1940′s Kosovo had and Albanian population of 45%. If you were so oppresed, you would be leaving Kosovo, not doubling your population since. After the Serbs, the Macedonians will oppress you, then the Greeks, then the Bulgarians, but then my friends, when the politics flip, it will be the Americans that oppres you…and perhaps you know this and that’s why the Fort Dix.
So, who is really being oppresed. True or not, let’s consider it’s the Serbians. 500 years of Ottoman’s, attempts of Austria/Hungary to rule the Serbians, then Hitler, now the west and never to forget, the Albanian systematic oppresion and expulsion of Serbians from Kosovo through the last few decades or so.
The Albanians have won the media battle, but I am afraid the ‘Battle for Kosovo’ is far from over.
Dr. Smith
Youre getting there Mr Smith,slowly but surely youre getting to the point:
:):).
Now youre talking about 1940′s thats good improvement – it means that you are admiting that 1940′s is how far you can talk about history.
In terms of kosovars joining big powers why don’t you become one so maybe they can join you
Finally I totally agree with you about the Battle for Kosovo – there will be many many battles for you in the time to come and the result will be something like the one from 1389 if not bigger “victory” for you , so better get ready to celebrate. Cheers
You are funny Johnny. You should look up and see how much less those numbers were prior to the 1940′s. If your claim is so true that the land is Albanian, then your claim is that the Albanians built the Churches and Monastaries 1000 years ago. That’s those churches and monastaries you are destroying as we speak. Your claim would make a good comedy topic.
Johnny,
In 1389 Serbs stood for something. They stood for preserving their religion, customs, culture. Some Albanians stood along with Serbs against the Ottomans. They all stood for their pride. Today, Serbs and the Christian Albanians can hold their heads up high for not chaning their religion at the sign of difficult times. The rest, can just go with the flow and become something else every century or so.
Mr. Smith
So you are saying that although Kosovo was under Serb/Yugoslav Control in the 40s, it was the Serbs who were being clensed out of Kosovo? If I didn’t know how skewed your education system is, I would have thought you were joking…
How do you think Turkey has such a large Albanian minority (4 million to be exact)? A good part of them are Albanians from Kosova, who were expelled during and after this time. Albanian population in Kosova woud be even larger if that didn’t happen. And at the end of the day, the situation is what it is today! The overwhelming majority of Kosova doesn’t even want to hear the name Serbia and they will NEVER allow Serbia to regain control of Kosova again lets there be more blood shed in Europe again, and NATO or the US won’t allow that after what they went through… Plus, once Kosova becomes indipendent, it will develop its own modern army with US and NATO help. It will be a nation with a brother nation right next to it (Albania). Kosova will have access to all Albania’s port’s thus growing the Albanian market and fazing out Serb imports completely. Serbs will not only lose Kosova, but if they continue on their present self-destructive path, they will lose business, and their chance to join the EU aytime soon.
You should really smarten up, wake up to reality.
This is what I was talking about Mr Smith, you are making a huge progress now.
From 1940′s you went back to the 14 century to talk about albanians fighting for the freedom of their land.
Just carry on a few more centuries back (you can not go very far back since your people were still searching for civilized countries to allow them to put their tents during that time).The rest can be explained by illyrian descendants – Kosovars.
Johnny,
Apparently you want to bring something back that happened more than 2000 years ago. With that thinking, perhaps the land should belong to the Macedonians or the Greeks. Perhaps the Magyar tribes should leave hungary or the Portugese should leave south America all together or perhaps we should all move out and leave the land to the native Americans. Sure, it all makes some sense, but you simply cannot claim something that may have been during the Illirian times. The land has been Serbian since the 7th century, simply proven on paper and by phyisical structures. The rest you are talking about is just wishful speculation.
Mr. Smith
Mr Smith , your comments are finally begining to make sense.
Just little correction – when you talk about 2000 years ago : its not something that has happened , it means illyrians were there (long before then actually) and kosovars as their descendants are still there (even though in much shrunken territory).
I am impressed with the progress you made for only few days.
I would only like to have your opinion about the church built in the property of the National Library in Prishtina in 1990′s during the occupation – what cultural meaning does that have for the builders?
I don’t even understand how you can make such arguments Mr “Smith”. It clearly seems that you are an hardcore Serbian that are very close minded since you keep mentioning over and over the incident of those two Albanians. Those two people do not represent the whole identity of Albania and Kosovo. You need to be more open and stop believing in things that you have been taught from the Serbian politics. History is what it is and like it or not justice will come and then you guys can continue talking about how you want to make this a religious war, which it isn’t at all in the first place. There is only one God and whoever wants to belive in God, does not need to put a religious name. Orthodox, Catholic, Muslim or whatever religous belief you decide to call yourself does not make any difference because we all believe in one God. If the world would be divided in so many religous faiths then that means that there exit many gods? That is so stupid and I hate it when people put religion in the middle because they can not make sense with strong arguments and facts. But Hey the Day has come and Justice will put its senses where it has belonged for years. Kosovo declared independence just yesterday and soon it will be recognized all over the world. USA, France and Ireland have already recognized it so you people keep talking because no one will listen to your stupid propaganda anymore.
Well, you can try to fight for it, but you’ll get crushed again! Oh, and no, Kosovo was never part of Albania, those are just your dreams.
To all the Albanian lovers out there….
the Romans called ALL Balkan people Illyrians, not just the Albanians.
As for what the Serbs did to Albanians… what the bloody hell do you think the Albanians did to the Serbs???!!!
I will always, no matter what, believe with my heart & soul: KOSOVO IS SERIA AND SERBIA IS KOSOVO!!
your country has filled you with so much propoganda u dont know what you are talking about….albanians were majority in the villayet of niss but you cowards backstabbed the one ppl in your side because russia wanted a slavic power in balkans…then you comited genocide in sinjak of novi pazzar and throughout kosovo and deported albanians in mass scale to turkey and albania proper…then you commited again genocide and ethnic cleansing in macedonia when albanians were well above majority there along with montenegrin albanians…theres today 10 mill albos kicked out of the areas i meantioned in turkey today…and those monestaries your are talking about r not 1000 years old theyr 2000 years old…they used to be catholic churches but your leaders decided they needed history in kosovo so decided to make them orthodox…theres plenty more of those in albania…and the war u refer to in 1387…this is where it gets funny….cuz serbs were the sole reason albanians and hungarians lost that battle…cuz it was your leader dusan that sided with the ottomans..again a backstabbing race…but dont worry your time will come cuz u know very well we dont forget anything
KOSOVO IS NOT PART OF SERBIA. ARE U CRAZY
Kosova will never be a part of Serbia! dont you get it people?
Kosovo is Serbia….that is a fact.
1)It is a cradle of Serbian culture,where were the Albanians when we built churches and monuments?
2)Kosovo was a Serbian center for mining industry….
3)We have fought battle on that land to stop the quick Ottoman advance!
4)From our defeat of Kosovo Albanian raiding parties are killing Serbs….
5)Albanian people come on Kosovo massively after WW2 because of Tito(do I need to remind some of you that our conutry fed you,clothed you,and that Tito has annulished taxses for you(same as Milosevic)
6)my family is from Kosovo,albanian people have torched our house killed my uncle and they are as they done it with so many serbs…
7)Milosevic atacked you,did any of Americans ever wondered why?Because they started killing serbs without mercy…..
8)Now you have an “independate state”,i can just laugh on that remark…Albanians(and rest of Serbians a Kosovo) now live in a cage,under the control of Eulex,Eu,and god knows how many organisations i really pity those who bellive that can be called independence
9)And something to add about “New state of Kosovo”….why are you cutting power o the mostly serbian vilage of Shipovo(5 days in a row)……..?
Mr Boris Todorovic
mozes slobodno dase jebes u duper jer kosvo ti je kosvo ne kosvo je srbija
All the people’s here
i just wanna say something for the end
what’s happent now is the Kosovo independet ?
yessssssssss and u serb’s u can just crye and dream about kosovo now
my pleasure :d
i dont belive how stupid can serbians be open your eyes ppl Kosovo is independent and was never part of serbia in fact kosovo is older country then serbians, serbians are just slaves from Russia open your eyes ppl and read coz you guys are living in dreams in fake facts in serbian propagandes
You see it now people : KOSOVO IS PART OF ALBANIA
LIKE IT WAS BEFORE SERBS TAKE IT FROM US. Thank god i’m albanian:) And belive me greater albania is coming soon.