Denver radio host Mike Rosen has attacked geography and the use of flags to teach about the countries of the world in the classroom. He refers to the recent suspension of geography teacher Eric Hamlin and calls Hamlin's efforts to teach geography, "An educratic mind-set with a decidedly liberal political and social agenda that pervades our public schools." Here's the column in the Rocky Mountain News. What do you think? Post your "comments" below.
Columnist Attacks Use of Flags for Teaching Geography
By Matt Rosenberg, About.com GuideSeptember 8, 2006
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Comments
Some teachers have gone to far with multiculturalism but come on! The teacher was using the flags as a teaching tool!
And so, as a world language teacher, shall I also get suspended for displaying all the flags I have in my classroom as well? I detect paranoia and xenophobia here.
This is proof that we have officially become a nation of morons.
There is an information crisis in the United States. Academia has to own up to its’ contribution to this crisis. If academia does not want to have the voucher system of delivering education to the population, then start teaching capitalism, philosophy, economics, patriotism, militarism, etc., as it relates to the world — not the way Howard Zinn & Noam Chomsky want these subjects to be taught. Quit the baloney, get on with the subject mater at hand in an objective manner. Otherwise, academia must take the blame for planting the seeds for the destruction of the greatest country the world has ever known. Quit teaching it like it isn’t. Otherwise, the crisis created by academia will culminate in the destruction of either America, or the education system they so cherish. I know which side I’ll be rooting for.
I think that this type of act demonstrates that parts of our academic system are going to hell in a handbasket!
I taught high school English for 34 years–all levels–and tried to work in, whenever I could, art, music, geography, anything valuable from the culture at large to reduce student myopia. And over those years, I probably displayed flags from more than 50 countries–and would do so again if I were still in the classroom. That columnist needs to go back and read some H. L. Mencken.
As an Australian, I do not always understand American culture. There are many times that I have felt an American has been ignorant of the rest of the world and as a result quite arrogant when traveling. I know this is a generalisation. The above comments are all by Americans who find the treatment if this issue appaling.
However this begins to give me some insight in to why I have perceived certain Americans to be ignorant.
I find it shocking that someone thinks it is “liberal” to learn about the world. This is the roots of racism. Terrorism is related to racism.
It is very dangerous to teach people NOT to learn about the world we live in. This is what I would call ultra conservatism.
On an Australian scale I am a conservative, but on this American scale, every single bloody Australian must be a liberal pervader. I fail to see why nearly all Americans like us, if there are the types who think as Mike Rosen or the former boss or Eric Hamlin.
Appaling!
Former boss of Eric Hamlin, is what I meant to write.
Apparently 80% of Americans couldn’t find Iraq on a map before the Iraq war.But they still feel that we have the right to bomb and invade it.
To ban the use of any teaching aid is ignorant stupidity, especially if it is for reasons of political correctness. Equally wrong is using teaching aids to promote a political agenda. The solution is simple. Keep your personal political, social, religious, sexual, preferences out of the classroom.
Thinking that the USA is superior to all other countries is exactly what is wrong today. Work and plays well with others?
To Paul the Aussie:
Sadly, far too many Americans have lost sight of the goal of teaching as a well rounded, complete education. Much overemphysis and suppression has crept into our educational system. We have many with political, religious, and secular, agendas attempting to direct education in a prescribed direction.
To Joel Hollis,
Whether or not America is the best country can be answered with a simple observation. How many want to get in verses how many want to get out.
This episode in the history of the American Classroom is atrocious. There is enormous symbolism to be found at the crux of this controversy, in the sense that the 3 flags ascribed outlaw or pariah status happen to be the UN, Mexican, and Chinese flags. What does that mean the school system wishes to express about the appearance of these specific 3 flags, at a time when American hostility with world bodies and other nation-states is at a historic low?
The race for the next leader of the U.N. will most likely benefit China a great deal more than Mexico, since Kofi’s successor to the PeaceKeeping throne will more likely be within China’s sphere of influence than within Mexico’s (since the next Sec-Gen will hail from Asia: likely either Jordan, Sri Lanka, India, South Korea, or Thailand). That being said, the UN strategy to deal with several problems at the international level in such a way that the Realpolitik adherents completely renege on their duty to honor the charter of the true world government works in India’s favor. The United Nations alone can declare the absurdity and the illegitimacy of Principal Schalk’s attempt at sovereignty over Eric Hamlin’s classroom. This principal in Colorado has caught beef with the United Nations. I hope Schalk is prepared to defend his decision before the top world body. So, kids, the lesson here today is about the symbolism inherent in the multitude of flags on this green earth.
Rosen isn’t interested in geography — not even geography in the gradeschool sense, which seems to be the extent of his understanding of the discipline. His interests are in indoctrination, inculcating the myth of American exceptionalism, and promoting a simplistic and sentimental “understanding” of the world that serves the interests of transnational capitalism, not the American people. Rosen brays “Amerika über alles“, laying the ideological cornerstone of nascent US fascism. The fact that he formulates it as an attack on displaying a Mexican flag in a classroom in Colorado – a part of Mexico occupied and annexed by American imperialists of an earlier generation – adds an irony to his screed that he, undoubtedly, is incapable of perceiving, let alone comprehending. May God bless the world, and preserve it from the depredations of jingoists like Rosen.
I believe displaying a flag temporarily (day or week) when teaching about a country is wonderful. But displaying any other national flag other than USA, PERMANENTLY, is not giving every other country the equal time they deserve. I understood the issues of the disciplined teachers were based upon flying the flags permanently, right? This wasn’t about EVER showing another flag – that would be stupid to restrict that. I believe each country has a right to display their flag more prominently than others, since it is their home country. Being patriotic doesn’t necessarily mean other countries aren’t honored. I keep my politics to myself in my classroom. Being totally fair to other countries, whether I agree with their politics or not, requires that if I display any flag other than USA permanently, then I should fly all other flags with equal importance, permanently. There isn’t enough space in my classroom to display sizable flags of each country in the world. I’m a USA flag waver and wouldn’t want to live anywhere else, but everyone else has that right to be patriotic, too. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for any country to display their flag more prominently than another. There are valid points on each side of this argument.
Sad indeed when simply showing another flag other than our own is reason for suspicion! What next foreign languages?
We are so quick to to raise our hand to punish those who choose to teach our children and slow to support them in their endeavor. Let them teach!
We’re becoming such a narrow-minded society and ignoring much of what that makes this world so intriguing. Geography is worth teaching and expanding upon in every way possible!
Let them teach!
To Mac Mclaren.
Aside from the fact that the “best country in the world” is an absurd and meaningless concept, your argument on numbers ignores qualitative assessments of “best”. More people eat at McDonalds than at fine French restaurants, but few would assert the superiority of food, drink, or ambience at the former. It pays more to be a gangster than a minister. Jim Jones’s family had more members, and more proven loyalty, than yours. And my father can beat your father up any day of the week.
It is with great sadness I read this editorial. This country is not an island! Our children need to learn of other places in the world. Our country has seen many years of dumbing down education and this is just one more step. How arrogant some have become. I love my country but to say we are the best? Since I have yet to have lived in every country in the world I am fairly certain I have no right to make the statement. I have been to a few countries I would have no problem moving to.
Don’t tell Rosen but I’m an Englishman teaching United Staes Government. (I bet that’ll get his knickers in a twist!) The flag thing is silly. Most Americans don’t evn know what flag protocol is, you can bet neo-cons like Rosen don’t. They just bang on about how liberal teachers are. Where pray tell me then are all the neo-con teachers? Oh that’s right they are all selfish money grabbers who look at teaching as the lowest profession of all. Not the noblest as we all know. I proudly fly my English flag next to the US flag. It symbolizes my heritage. The US flag symbolizes that of my (American born) daughters.
It’s a flag Rosen. Grow up.
When I first heard this story, I thought it was ridiculous to disallow the flying of foreign flags for educational purposes but when I read that the teacher said he was concerned that by giving special treatment to the U.S. flag, “we’re sending the message that America is No. 1, everything else is below that.” Well, sir, America is No. 1 and if you feel differently you should start packing. When you are an American citizen, you pledge your allegiance to America and only America. No waffling on this one.
As a retired elementary school principal, who has volunteered since retirement,teaching geography to young children,I’m outraged over the lack of public concern for our U.S. students and their lack of worldly knowledge. If anything, we need to start using maps in classrooms a lot earlier than high school! I even use maps when reading stories to children, showing them for instance where hippos REALLY live, outside of zoos and parks. As children become familiar and comfortable with maps, they’ll be more inclined to use them on their own. Then, as adults, they’ll be able to find places on a map for their own children.
I teach geography (as well as World History and Economics), and politics are fair game in my class. However, I am ALWAYS astounded when teachers and schools are criticized for having a “liberal” bias, and “indoctrinating” students to a leftist point of view. Are these critics for real? I simply have NO TIME to work in anything other than the curriculum I am required to teach, with 150+ students. If a student asks me my political views, I always say “that doesn’t matter” and move on.
My child attends an International Baccalaureate school. The curriculum meets high standards of excellence and the school always tops the state in standardized tests. The main hall has a display of many flags from different countries (not sure if there were chosen for their participation in the IB program or some other criteria) as well as clocks displaying the time in various international cities. I love the feel of the main hall. I like how it reminds the students that they are a part of a larger world. This school also happens to be in Colorado where such a display is deemed illegal. Sad. Colorado’s lawmakers need to take a second look at their short-sighted thinking and rewrite this absurd law.
TO Abdul Massiach,
If America is not the best country to live in, why are you living here?
LB: “Well, sir, America is No. 1 and if you feel differently you should start packing.”
TB: No, sir — unless you can site the constitutional or case law basis for such a position. There is no legal requirement that US citizens have to love their country or consider it number 1. There ARE protections, though, for freedom of thought and expression. Your opinion seems to go against the spirit of the Constitution.
Mac, I don’t live in the US anymore. Do you think where I live is relevant to my point?
“More people eat at McDonalds than at fine French restaurants, but few would assert the superiority of food, drink, or ambience at the former. It pays more to be a gangster than a minister. Jim Jones’s family had more members, and more proven loyalty, than yours. And my father can beat your father up any day of the week.”
This should have come with a warning!!! I nearly spit my Diet Coke onto my computer screen from laughing so hard. Thank you for the insight and the humor.
Dear Abdul,
I did not state that America was the “best country in the world” although I do think so. I am happy that you are happy living where you do. On a personal note, if you are Muslim, then you follow the teaching that all infidels should be killed if they cannot be converted, and for that reason, I am quite happy that you do not live here.
I curious about the line displayed with “equal prominence.” What does that mean, exactly? There is a flag code that shows how the US flag is to be displayed with foreign flags. It’s difficult to display it with “equal promininece.” It’s either More or Less prominently displayed than the flag it is next to.
That being noted, I agree that a rotating schedule of flags would be more appropriate for an American school. Having the Mexican (or French or Chinese or Angoran) flag displayed on a permanent basis would lend more credence to that particular nation. For better or for worse, those children are in an Amercian school, learning American values, as informed by their own culture, using American Tax Dollars.
What is this country coming to? We are a nation of immigrants from worldwide. What is so harmful about permanently displaying flags from other countries as a teaching tool. Jingoism and ignorance has emerged as one of the greatest threats to our existence. We ought to be less concerned about flags-i.e, burning and displaying them, and more concerned about learning about the nations that these flags symbolize, even including our own.
Mac, it’s way late here in NZ. I don’t embrace or believe in any religion or deity, though 35 years ago I put in two years as a Mormon missionary. The Arabic name is a pseudonymn that I have used once or twice to see if/how it affects the way that people relate to my remarks. My real Christian name is Irish, surname German, birthplace Ohio. Good night all.
Wow Mac…”Abdul” just put you to sleep. Your narrow mind is what is most dangerous to America…let me guess, you voted from Bush in ’00 and ’04.
“I suspect this is precisely the message most Americans want sent in government schools.” However, this is precisely the mentality that hinders knowledge of other cultures and multilateral action: a callow sense of innate, permanent American hegemony and corollary disregard for multilateral action and cooperation. Children may know where countries are on a map, but they won’t have the faintest clue of how interdependent they are.
If it is true that Hamlin said giving special treatment to the US flag sends the message that the US is No. 1 (did Rosen quote him out of context or misquote him?) then I think he is a misguided teacher. Does he really think that displaying foreign flags of various or similar sizes is an important factor in how students view the value of those countries? (Not to mention, what criteria does one use when thinking that one country is better than another?)
One of you teachers out there should do a study: pick two random countries, say Bulgaria and New Zealand, and display a large (as large as legally possible) flag of Bulgaria and a small flag of New Zealand for a while, then ask the kids which of the two countries is better. Then switch the flag sizes and ask again later. If the children reverse their views, then the teacher has a lot of work to do with these children.
Here’s another thought: ask the students to rank the top N countries in the world. Then ask them to explain their answers. Ask them if the flag of a country were smaller or larger if they’d change their mind. Hopefully they would say “What difference does that make?”
Rosen is exactly what is wrng with American education. It is the desire of ultra conservative autocrats like Rosen to control the minds of our young people-make them into goose-stepping mindless robots who don’t ever think for themselves. Blind patriotism is no better than treason. Action without thought is the realm of our current leaders and now that Americans are starting to question their actions it must be the fault of a “liberal” education. I teach students Geography and I teach them that we are only one piece of the world. I teach them about our greatnessa nd our faults because better they enter the real world with all of the information and then they will be prepared to face a world that is angry with us and loves us at the same time. These kids better learn about the world-they have to live in it.
Dear Abdul in New Zealand,
Beautiful country there, only a few places here as nice, Yosemite comes to mind and here in the mountains of Northern Arizona. Great joke with the name. I hesitated to speak my mind fully.
Your statement was riddled with ludicrous comparisons. First, I did not mention numbers. Of course the ambience of the French restaurant should be more suave however, some people don’t care for escargo and others just prefer a “Big Mac”. As to gansters and ministers, there’s a difference? Here some gangsters are called televangelists. I don’t know anything about Jim Jones’ family and I’m surprised you know about mine. I hope your father can beat up my father. My father is dead.
Hey Mac…don’t try to back peddle out of this one by changing the subject to the topography of NZ and US and all that fluff…you said the following to “Abdul”:
“On a personal note, if you are Muslim, then you follow the teaching that all infidels should be killed if they cannot be converted, and for that reason, I am quite happy that you do not live here.”
Have you ever spoke with a follower of Islam about their values, traditions, family, history or worldview? What you said to “Abdul” suggests not. Gather your own facts and opinions instead of mirroring what you hear on Fox News.
Abdul,
Read the Torah. Of all the major religions only two proselatize and only Islam commands death to the non-convert. I don’t trust television for information. I do my own research.
Bye the way, I really do love New Zealand. I have wanted to live there but cannot afford the move at this late date. Are the politics similar to Australia?
Grrr, to speak unintelligently (why not if he did?) the guy is a douche.
Mac – Please, take a breather. Comparing the virtues of different religions will lead nowhere. Anybody can pick pieces out of The Bible and find much to shock and shame honorable Christians. Not to mention the endless bloodletting over the centuries in the name of Christ and other prophets and/or dieties. It isn’t worth arguing. Also, please try not to confuse nationalism and patriotism so much. I am proud to be an American and a patriot, and appalled by nationalistic fervor.
Fer God’s sake, at least spel, and punktuate properly when you send; a message. It makes us, in edukashun, look really stoopid!
While Rosen makes some decent observations of this sticky situation, he also relegates Geography into a “countries and capitals” role for “…delightful but callow seventh-graders…” When Geography is seen only in this vein, so much is lost!
If indeed Hamlin has an educational background in Geography, and the State of Colorado certified him to teach the subject, then he should be “qualified” to teach “…geopolitics, world history, religion, culture and comparative political and economic systems in a short, middle-school semester…” (i.e., “world geography”, as Rosen says). That’s what teacher training is meant to do: qualify teachers in their specific subject areas. Most states in the US do NOT require a geography course through all of K-12, and most often, those states that do offer a geography course lack the teacher who is trained in geography. My high school geography course was taught by the basketball coach who was, incidentally, also the History teacher. But he had NEVER taken a Geography course as part of his training.
I wonder, if Rosen were given a blank map, would he “fail” the course because he can’t “fill in the names” on it? Atlases were created so we need not memorize where The Gambia or Djibouti are. Atlases help facilitate learning, but must be supplemented by real world items to really have any true geographic significance.
Memorizing an entire world’s worth of countries constitutes a VERY SMALL part of Geography as a discipline (most professional and academic Geographers would be hard pressed to fill-in an entire map of the world–though they would all know at least the relative location of the countries). And to focus our youth on such a low level of cognitory action, as Rosen ignorantly suggests, negates the potential for K-12 student to apply higher-level syntheses of well-grounded world perspectives.
The first time I encountered this story at your site I don’t recall hearing that the teacher displayed the flags in equal measure. Upon hearing that the teacher was asked to compromise by displaying the American flag higher or in more prominence than the other flags, I agreed with the administration(principal) who was following state law.
Most students know nothing of their own country, most know only what they hear from biased talk shows about other countries as well as their own. A social studies lesson can still show various flags, teach the fellowship of all nations, but still emphasize the American flag…the native country. When people in this country think that New Mexico is outside the USA, it is necessary to show ( and this was an excellent opportunity) that we live, work, and study in the USA.
You don’t introduce your children to other people outside your family as relatives. You teach the inclusion of all people, sharing with all people, but no matter how close you are to these people, they are not your family. How else will children know if you don’t teach them??
A teacher’s political position should be neutral; that does not preclude observation and conclusion on the part of the students.(Aren’t those dynamics of learning??)
Just as maps tell valuable information about countries, flags do also. What’s the bid deal? In this day and age, teachers need to use their time with students as creatively as possible. Techniques that help students learn by making associations are always needed. The emphasis here is geography, not vexillology.
One more thing Mac…I’m not “Abdul”. I’m just a reader from Chicago who just doesn’t care for your tone. I think that Cammryne Anderson summed you up pretty well. Later. Oh, and to “Abdul”, I like the name bait on the comment board…I bet that always draws out the Mac’s of the world for what they are…ignorant.
Before a riot starts over this subject maybe you should check the United States laws before proceeding…I guess they still count for something….
Here is the law for flying the American flag along with that of another country: 36 U.S.C. 173-178 specifically 36 U.S.C 175(g): When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.
I chose my name in the spirit of continuing Abdul’s anonymity. Ya’ll behave now…don’t want Mama chasing ya’ll with no cast iron frying pan. She’s got her a mean whollop, hear?
Do other nations undertake the same sort of self-flagellation that America does? Where else would citizens be concerned about giving their flag a place of prominence? Or is it just an American thing?
Ha ha ha great question JM. I wonder when where and how our romance with “Old Glory” began.
JM and McLauren pose interesting questions about Americans and our flag. Bernard-Henri Lévy presented his observations about these sentiments in the May, 2005 issue of The Atlantic. See A PEOPLE AND ITS FLAG, AN excerpt from “In the Footsteps of Tocqueville” http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200505/levy
Lévy received some harsh criticism for his writings, and I personally saw fault in much of what he says. Regardless, it is interesting and enlightening to see his perspective.
I live in Canada and have been watching America for the last few years with wonderment, belilderment, pity and terror. After reading these letters I feel a little better. There are still intelligent, educated and most importantly OPEN MINDED people to the south of me. One question though:
When did the word LIBERAL become an insult?
I believe America is the greatest country in the world, I love Rush Limbaught, I go to church, I believe the Bible, and I voted for George W. Bush twice, but I also boldly display the flags of 14 nations in my public school classroom and will continue to do so until they force me to take them down. I believe we need to use every teaching tool available to grab and keep students attention. By the way, I also still grade tests with a red pen!
As an American citizen, I have a real problem with schools that prohibit the display of foreign national flags. However, I also believe in proper display protocol, which gives the highest prominence to the American flag. That protocol is a well-defined national standard, which few schools teach and even fewer columnists/talk show hosts refer to, unfortunately. As an American standing on Canadian, British, Russian or Japanese soil, I would completely respect the fact that their national flag would be the flag most prominently displayed. It has less to do with superiority and more to do with pride and respect.
The Denver newspaper article is exactly the thing which sends the chills down the spine of many of us here in the UK. The only thing the students should learn about the world is the names and locations of the countries. (That would obviously help!! A friend of mine worked on a summer camp in New Hampshire and most of the youngster though that England was an Island off the coacst of New England!!). But it leaves the impression that the rest of the world is subservient to the USA.
Unfortunately what some of you in the USA see as patriotism we see as gingoism and belitteling the rest of the world.
I know that is not true of most in the USA but because it the loudest and most colourful voice, it gets the most publicity.
Because the USA is the biggest and most powerful country in the world, it would get much better reaction if it acted with more humility.
It is an inconguity in your system that in the land of the free you are not allowed the freedom to criticise. Look at what happened to the Dixie Chicks when they had the temerity to disagree. That had overtones of Stalinist Russia.
So few American have had experience of other countries, how on earth can they know that they are the best! Having exerience a few parts of the USA as well as many countries in Europe there are a number of place where I would feel safer an better off than those I have seen in the USA.
I will be written off as an American hater and dismissed, but believe you me we are not all clamouring at the door to move across your side of the Atlantic.
It is patently ridiculous to ban the display of other nations’ flags within the confines of a history, geography, or foreign language classroom, especially when they are designed to familiarize the student with the color patterns of various nations’ pennants and flags.
We Americans are famed for knowing little or nothing about other nations and their histories. It looks like a number of school principals want to keep it that way.
Yeah you are right its just conservatives that are so closed minded. I am sure if you went to a geography classroom in Iran, Russia, China, Cuba, Venezuela, France, or Abdul the liars NZ you would see an American flag flying high, and not their own. I suppose you would not be offended, nor believe those host countries bigots.
As someone born overseas, and not becoming a US citizen until a teenager I am deeply interested in other cultures. I proudly display artifacts from those I have been fortunate enough to visit. I still have the notion that America is the best country in the world, and can’t wait to get back. That doesn’t mean I think we are 1st class citizens while others 2nd class. I would hope all people think as their country the greatest, just as one would say his wife is the most beautiful, and his kids the most wonderful. Does that make him a bigot? I am sorry you come in my house the picture of my wife is going to have priority not yours. I do not care if you are offended, because I would expect the same of you in your house.
The point of the columnist had little to do with displaying flags, but everything to do with attitude towards one country. Don’t hold the US to a standard you would expect of no other country. Teach geography not politics in a nation that is anemic in the subject we love.
I respectfully disagree with Matt Rosenberg’s premise that Mike Rosen’s column “attacked geography and the use of flags to teach about the countries of the world.” Rosen objects not to the use of flags to teach geography per se, but rather to the act of placing foreign flags on a par with the Stars and Stripes. I agree with Rosen, although I find it less objectionable for a number of flags to be displayed together on the wall of a classroom than for the Mexican and American flags to be displayed side by side, at equal height, in the lobby of a school. How many Mexicans died at Normandy?
I am no xenophobe. As I write this, I am in Dubai, looking out the window of my hotel room at the stunning Emirates Towers and the Burj al Arab (the “sail hotel”). Seeing these amazing architectural achievements, and knowing what feats of engineering and construction they represent, I feel sad that citizens of the U.S. and of Arab countries don’t have a deeper appreciation of and respect for each other’s cultures. Every country has reason to be proud of its unique contributions to human civilization. The chief gift–yes, gift–bestowed on us by our Founding Fathers has been to bring us closer to realizing the ideals of liberty and human freedom than any other society in history. In at least that sense, the United States of America IS superior to all other countries on the globe. To me, that’s what our flag stands for. One man’s xenophobia is another man’s patriotism–take care not to conflate the two.
… I simply feel Happy to live in Europe, where flags are a normal feature of the every day lanscape.
As an American I no longer concede that America is #1, etc. Pride is a very dangerous drug. The ill-effects are magnified by ignorance. I love America; ergo I will not damage her by injudicious mixture of ignorance and pride.
The present generation is not the America that fought and won WWII.
You’re not the same. Your pseudo-patriotic posturings do no real good.
Other people love their countries and flags too. It’s a shame that that’s a “liberal” idea and somehow bad.
There is such a thing as compromise. The foreign flags could have been displayed away from our flag to please the school honchos. They need to remove the burrs from their saddleblankets. That said: Respecting and understanding other cultures is important. Something else important is realizing what America is about. In my travels to other countries, the realization that we Americans are bound by IDEALS, (as opposed to being bound by common heritage as in most other nations) became very clear. America is not perfect (I have experienced discrimination as a Hispanic) but we have it good here. If we lose those ideals, we lose our soul.